Welcome, Guest
Username Password: Remember me

I saw that Rob Bell signed up...
(1 viewing) (1) Guest

TOPIC: I saw that Rob Bell signed up...

I saw that Rob Bell signed up... 5 years, 8 months ago #331

  • Timothew
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 228
  • Karma: 15
I saw that Rob Bell is on the Forum.

Hello Rob, I'm a fan of Love Wins. I bought it and read through it the same day (Last year).
Someone on another forum (TheologyWeb) asked me what I thought of it, Can I repost that here?
Without waiting for permission here it is:

You'll have to give us your thoughts on it when you're finished reading.

I just finished reading it, I couldn't put it down. Have you and RBerman read it yet?
I tried reading through the posts on this thread, but I couldn't read them all. The thread is longer than the book.
I did a little [forehead slap] after I read about 200 posts and found out the discussers hadn't read the book they are discussing. Oh well.

I was a little disappointed that the book wasn't bigger. It's "A book about heaven, hell, and the fate of every person who ever lived." It should be bigger.

Rob Bell asks, "Does God get what God wants?"
It's a chapter title. He just seems to assume that God gets what God wants in the end. (For all to be saved)
What if God wants us to choose Him? Does He still get what He wants if we choose to say "No God, I'm too busy for you." And if God gets what God wants even if people choose to reject Him, what was the choice thing all about? An Illusion? What about the 5 foolish virgins? They chose to not have oil in their lamps. That story doesn't end with, "Oh you finally made it, come on in, the party's still going on!"

I bought the book because this quote intrigued me:

"God loves us.
God offers us everlasting life
by grace, freely, through no
merit on our part.

Unless you do not respond the
right way.

Then God will torture you forever.
In hell."

Huh?

I need more. I need to see more bible passages supporting his position.
I think the book is great, but needs more development.

It seems Rob Bell took a lot of heat for his view of hell. It doesn't seem (to me) to be much different from C.S. Lewis. I would like to see more biblical support. I don't think (for me) that he does enough to discard the traditional view of hell. Perhaps if he did, the book would never have been published.

Some communities don't permit open, honest inquiry about the things that matter most. Lots of people have voiced a cencern, expressed a doubt, or raised a question, only to be told by their family, church, friends, or tribe: "We don't discuss those things here."
That quote from the preface resonated with me. I've been told that very thing. On another "christian forum" I was told that if I wanted to discuss "annihilationism" I would have to do it in the "unorthodox forum." No discussion of this policy was allowed.
Τιμοθέῳ γνησίῳ τέκνῳ ἐν πίστει
Tim Wiesner
Last Edit: 5 years, 8 months ago by Timothew.

Re: I saw that Rob Bell signed up... 5 years, 8 months ago #333

  • Givemhell
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 810
  • Karma: 19
I know that the issue that I am about to comment on from your message Tim is one that is very sensitive for many people. Please note that I am only offering my own personal view and I do mean it with as much brotherly love as possible since I know it can sometimes be hard to read the tone of peoples comments through written text.

I hope that you don't mind if I offer a different perspective on some of these issues.

For example:


Rob Bell asks, "Does God get what God wants?"
It's a chapter title. He just seems to assume that God gets what God wants in the end. (For all to be saved)


I personally do believe that God does gets what He wants as the dead will be raised, judged, and punished for their sins. I don't think that God wants every person to be saved. I think that God is Glorified through the destruction of the wicked as it shows Him to be the God of Justice as well as the God of Love and Mercy. From a logical standpoint it wouldn't make sense for Him to want everyone to be saved.

God is all-powerful as well as the creator and sustainer of all things. God is free to do what He wants and has been known to reach in and change peoples hearts. He circumsizes the hearts of those whom He chooses and heardens the hearts of those whom He chooses. I know for a fact that God changes people's hearts and gives them new life because of what happened to me when I read the gospel in the New Testament, that Christ had paid for my sin and bought me from death, paying my sin dept in full and was raised from death to Glory. I didn't do this for myself but Christ did it for me. This all-powerful God is not a God who fails to accomplish what He sets out to accomplish. God will not be eternally bummed as a Trillion years from now He considers how He wanted to save everyone but failed to convince them.

It doesn't make sense biblically either.

Romans 9
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory — 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?


Of course, in the end Universalism cannot be reconciled with the gospel. Will Ghandi face destruction and punishment for his sins? Yes. I know that this is the case because the bible teaches that at the end of the day all men sin and fall short of God's standard of righteousness and that Christ died for the sins of the people who believe in Him. Almost all of the themes of the bible would fall apart and Christ's parables would end up as being largely nonsensical if Universalism were true. An adoption of Universalism is ultimately a rejection of Christianity and I would be very happy to have a respectful discussion on this topic because I understand that many if not most Christians at some point consider Universalism and investigate the issue and I respect that. I hope that Rob is only asking the questions,which I think is good, but I hope that at the end of the day he believes the right answers.
What bliss will fill the ransomed souls,
When they in glory dwell,
To see the sinner as he rolls,
In quenchless flames of hell.

- Isaac Watts
Last Edit: 5 years, 8 months ago by Givemhell.

Re: I saw that Rob Bell signed up... 5 years, 8 months ago #334

  • Givemhell
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 810
  • Karma: 19
I forgot to mention that you might find this to be an interesting resource. It's called Fighting for the Faith and it analyzes sermons from seeker driven churches, liberal theologians, self-proclaimed prophets and nutjobs etc from the point of view that Christ and the gospel should really be at the center of our Christian experience. It's good stuff really. He has a ton of free audio and touches on a lot of Rob Bell's stuff. This one for example is called Deconstructing Rob Bell's False Gospel. www.fightingforthefaith.com/2009/07/deco...ls-false-gospel.html

It's easy to find more of them on his website or on itunes.
What bliss will fill the ransomed souls,
When they in glory dwell,
To see the sinner as he rolls,
In quenchless flames of hell.

- Isaac Watts

Re: I saw that Rob Bell signed up... 5 years, 8 months ago #335

  • Timothew
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 228
  • Karma: 15
Hi Givemhell, I don't agree with everything Bell says in his book, but I still believe it is a good book, and an important one. I am an annihilationist, and I don't think Bell is. He's gone in a different direction. Have you read his book? I think that he has said that he is not a universalist. I don't really understand why not, but that is what he said.
Τιμοθέῳ γνησίῳ τέκνῳ ἐν πίστει
Tim Wiesner

Re: I saw that Rob Bell signed up... 5 years, 8 months ago #336

  • Givemhell
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 810
  • Karma: 19
The truth is that before the book came out Rob Bell's video came up in a conversation and I took a look at it and thought it was well made and interesting and I started to look into what people were saying and I learned a little bit about Mars Hill where he was a pastor at the time and when the book came out I started to listen to critiques of the book and interviews with Rob Bell but I have refrained from buying the book because I don't want to give money, of which I barely have any at all, to someone who is off somewhere in left field in the emergent community. If I had a little bit more money it probably wouldn't have been an issue for me but for me that's the situation.

I have however seen and heard interviews with him and especially liked the one on Unbelievable? radio. I don't like the way that he refuses to answer basic questions. He reminds me of a politician with the way that he sidesteps real issues. It really frustrates me and I don't know if I could read something from someone like that without constantly searching for and being in other books checking the references.

At the end of the day though Tim I think that you are probably right. It probably was a good read and it probably was a book that made a lot of people think and that is a good thing. I know I enjoyed hearing about the book and listening to Chris Rosebrough analyze Rob Bell's sermons.
What bliss will fill the ransomed souls,
When they in glory dwell,
To see the sinner as he rolls,
In quenchless flames of hell.

- Isaac Watts
Last Edit: 5 years, 8 months ago by Givemhell.

Re: I saw that Rob Bell signed up... 5 years, 8 months ago #337

  • Timothew
  • OFFLINE
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 228
  • Karma: 15
Nobody's read the book, but everybody has an opinion about the book. How is that possible?
The book isn't long, and I'm sure there is a library in your village.
Why don't you read it, with a bible next to you, and test everything to see if what he is saying could be true? (or false)
Τιμοθέῳ γνησίῳ τέκνῳ ἐν πίστει
Tim Wiesner
Last Edit: 5 years, 8 months ago by Timothew.
The following user(s) said Thank You: webb
Time to create page: 0.57 seconds
Featured audio: Dr. Al Mohler & Chris Date debate
"Should Christians rethink Hell?" on Unbelievable?