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*Eternal* punishment?
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TOPIC: *Eternal* punishment?

*Eternal* punishment? 5 years, 2 months ago #710

  • Ssammoh4
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Can a universalist explain what the bible means by eternal punishment
Bible verses that I would like to see explained by a mortalist:

Revelations 20:14
Daniel 12:2
Revelations 14:10-11

Re: *Eternal* punishment? 5 years, 2 months ago #715

  • Givemhell
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Good question.
What bliss will fill the ransomed souls,
When they in glory dwell,
To see the sinner as he rolls,
In quenchless flames of hell.

- Isaac Watts

Re: *Eternal* punishment? 5 years, 2 months ago #718

  • Timothew
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They say that eternal means aionian, whcih means "pertaining to the age". So eternal punishment is punishment pertaining to the age of punishment. When that age is completed, the sin will be burnt away and the perfected person goes to God. I've said what they say as well as I could. I have a problem with this doctrine though because it leaves the sacrifice of Jesus Christ completely out. If I can have salvation by going through hell, then salvation is not by faith in Jesus Christ. It's almost like having faith in hellfire.
Τιμοθέῳ γνησίῳ τέκνῳ ἐν πίστει
Tim Wiesner

Re: *Eternal* punishment? 5 years, 2 months ago #722

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I think you are rightTimothew. That is probably how they would respond, but this is why their aoinian response wouldn't work

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." Matthew 25:46

In the verse above eternal punishment is paralleled with eternal life and from what I understand, certainly mean the same thing.

It wouldn't make sense to switch the meaning of the word in the middle of a sentence, if aoinian only refers to a short period of time then not only is the punishment not everlasting but neither is the duration of life.
What bliss will fill the ransomed souls,
When they in glory dwell,
To see the sinner as he rolls,
In quenchless flames of hell.

- Isaac Watts

Re: *Eternal* punishment? 5 years, 2 months ago #728

And, as we argue, if you read in 'permanent' for 'eternal,' while permanent death means never live again, permanent life means 'live forever'

Of course, we are not redefining 'eternal' for our own argument, but rather, see that as the sense in which the scriptures use the words in context.
Last Edit: 5 years, 2 months ago by Daniel Sinclair.
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Re: *Eternal* punishment? 5 years, 2 months ago #735

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“Scripture teaches that the wicked suffer “eternal punishment”(Mt 25:46), “eternal judgment” (Heb 6:2) and “eternal destruction” (2 Thess 1:9), but this doesn’t mean the wicked endure “eternal destruction.” They rather experience “eternal destruction” the same way the elect experience “eternal redemption” (Heb 5:9, 9:12). The elect do not undergo an eternal process of redemption. Their redemption is “eternal” in the sense that once the elect are redeemed, it is forever. So too, the damned do not undergo an eternal process of destruction (is that even a coherent concept?). The wicked are “destroyed forever” (Ps 92:7), but they are not forever being destroyed." -Greg Boyd
If the assumption that the soul is by nature immortal and that God can't destroy it, is itself destroyed. Traditionalism will collapses like a house of cards. For this assumption is Traditonalisms foundation, not scripture.
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