Fallen Angels?

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3 years 8 months ago #2983 by drewd4d
Fallen Angels? was created by drewd4d
Satan and demons are commonly referred to as fallen angels. This is a doctrine I'm on the fence about. Because a common conditionalist 'proof text' is the wages of sin is death, I thought this forum might make for a good place for a discussion about it. So, if the wages of sin is death, and Satan and his minions are a group of fallen angels that sinned, why have they remained alive for thousands of years? Obviously I have more in mind about this, but this would make a good starting point. Thoughts?

Grace and peace
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3 years 8 months ago #2985 by Timothew
Replied by Timothew on topic Fallen Angels?
Can you start from the beginning?
Why are Satan and the demons considered to be fallen angels? What Bible passages support this idea?

Τιμοθέῳ γνησίῳ τέκνῳ ἐν πίστει
Tim Wiesner
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3 years 8 months ago #2987 by drewd4d
Replied by drewd4d on topic Fallen Angels?

Timothew wrote: Can you start from the beginning?
Why are Satan and the demons considered to be fallen angels? What Bible passages support this idea?

If the OT teaches this, it is in a very vague way. Angels do not appear in the narrative until Genesis 16. The relevant texts in the NT are Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2:4. Whats odd about those passages is that they are at least allusions to the Pseudepigraphical work of 1 Enoch. If there was a reason to believe that angels sinned and Jude and Peter wanted to bring this to light when warning against false teachers, why not quote something from the OT? It's because it's not there. That would mean one of two things. Either the 'angels that sinned' idea was not revealed until the intertestamental period in an uninspired book, or Jude and Peter were somehow equating the false teaches of Jude 4 and 2 Peter 2:1 with those who reject authority and speak evil of dignitaries (angels) Jude 8 and those who despise authority.. are presumptuous.. and speak evil of dignitaries 2 Peter 2:10. The contrast is that angels.. do not bring reviling accusations against them even though they are greater in power and might 2 Pet 2:11. I understand that's a tough sell (I'm not sold on it either), but so is the alternative.

Other than those passages, there is absolutely no reason to say that angels ever have sinned against God. Maybe Rev 12:7 when Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels, but there are real problems there too.

Grace and peace
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3 years 8 months ago #2990 by kgddds
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drewd4d wrote: Thoughts?

Couple thoughts...

1. One line of thought is to interpret this verse to be only directed towards humans, like this: For the wages of [human] sin is [the second] death, but the gift of God [to humans] is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2. Another line of thought is to believe that sin has not yet paid its ultimate wage of death to anyone (human or other) and it being a future event occurring at the final judgement.

Ken

Romans 6:23 NIV
[23] For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The beauty of grace is seen in the glory it reveals.
Grace is glory's seed; Glory is grace's bloom.
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