How to Respond to "Jesus Taught ECT"

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3 months 3 weeks ago - 3 months 3 weeks ago #5345 by SarahsKnight

D. Barry wrote:
Again, why would Jesus Himself make this plain offer to "LIVE FOREVER" if everyone lived forever?


They just respond that He is talking about "spiritually" living forever there. Death has special meanings in the ECT world. But only to some.

Others will simply be oblivious to this distinction and claim that the soul is immortal no matter what, anyway. Thanks, Plato. =/
Last edit: 3 months 3 weeks ago by SarahsKnight.
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3 months 3 weeks ago - 3 months 3 weeks ago #5346 by D. Barry
I feel your frustration. I have learned that in the area of CI – you need to tread lightly. You have to be sensitive to see if the person is even open to another viewpoint.

Also – what they think you are saying “There is no punishment for the lost – no hell.”

So understand their knee-jerk reaction.

Also – the issue is not really about heaven/hell. But about immortality. Do the lost have it? Or is it part of the gospel.

It is the latter that is true.

Read chapter two of this website www.jewishnotgreek.com (Are all born immortal).

Immortality is only for a select few... those who are born again ("who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel" 2 Timothy 1:10). The rest of humanity, after suffering according to the level of their sins, will be destroyed. The wages of sin for them will be death (Rom 6:23). God only has immortality -- anyone else becomes immortal only as a result of God's gracious gift (1 Timothy 6:16, Romans 2:7).
Last edit: 3 months 3 weeks ago by D. Barry.
The following user(s) said Thank You: John Haak
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3 months 3 weeks ago #5348 by John Haak
I like this because it draws people into the evidence before they prejudice their thinking about "hell" as they have heard that it must be. That creates a problem that they cannot so easily avoid. Jesus took this approach ... "Is the Messiah David's son?' ... "Why does he call him Lord?"
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3 months 3 weeks ago #5354 by DTM

SarahsKnight wrote: Unfortunately, despite all of the verses that clearly state the fate of the lost as destruction/perish/consumed/etc., I doubt it will convince anyone.


Why not? That convinced me. And it convinced you. And just about everyone else here. I don't mean to be flippant, because your point is important and, to an extent, valid. Some people will never be convinced. But with them, you'll have to accept defeat and move on. Others will listen to reason and thoughtful arguments.Don't let those who are determined not to listen get you down.

D. Barry, I have to thank you for your website. I found that a few years ago, and your material played an important role in getting me to finally fully understand and accept CI. And, in line with what I just wrote for SarahsKnight, one if the key parts of your site for me is the section describing how ECT requires you to believe that those who die, live forever; those who perish, don't actually perish; those who are destroyed, remain; mortals are immortal, and so on. You have to have a whole vocabulary of words that "really" mean exactly the opposite of their normal meaning.
The following user(s) said Thank You: John Haak, SarahsKnight, Bryan G
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3 months 3 weeks ago #5355 by D. Barry
Thanks DTM. My website www.jewishnotgreek.com came out of much study and inner turmoil. It was finally birthed about 10 years ago. I did learn from many like Edward Fudge. But the truth of CI was just overwhelming once I stared to look at the scriptures without injecting any presuppositions.
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1 week 2 days ago #9458 by chloebess
I realize I am "late" on this one but the response I give the ECT people is very simple: "If Jesus were going to describe a place where sinners are tormented forever He would not have used the word Gehenna."

Gehenna was well known to the people He was addressing, and they would not have thought He was speaking of a place of eternal punishment. Quite the contrary:

JESUS WAS SAYING THAT SINNERS WILL BE BURNED UP BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED AT GEHENNA.

The greatest communicator in the world would have described an ECT place much more clearly. These quotes from Jesus offer great support for CI.

Carl
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