Question on "cessation of life" vs "cessation of extinction?

1 year 8 months ago #9504 by FelixCulpa
I've listened to several of Chris Date's debates and today I listened to his debate with Len Pettis. I've notice Chris correct people several times when they say he believes that death is the "cessation of existence," claiming he believes in the "cessation of life." While so far I think Chris has been the better debater in each of the debates I've listened to, I am always confused when this happens. So, I have two questions with this:

1. What is the difference between the two?

2. Wouldn't the cessation of life mean the inevitable cessation of existence (a point made by Pettis)

3. Why is the distinction relevant/ important?

I have trouble with the "cessation of life" definition because many Traditionalists would still affirm that, at least on the surface, due to their definition of life and death. I will say that language is probably the most frustrating thing about this debate for me, so I want to be able to understand and clearly articulate what the CI position of death is.


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1 year 8 months ago #9505 by DTM
I'm not certain what Chris has in mind, but I'll take an educated guess. Certainly, cessation of life involves cessation of existence in the sense that you no longer exist as a sentient being, which is what really matters. But the problem with the phrase "cessation of existence" is that the ECT folks often will respond that, even if you're incinerated, the smoke and ashes remain, so "existence" (in some form) has not ceased. That's just a red herring argument I'd rather avoid.

This is the same argument some will give when you speak of "annihilation", which is why I don't use the terms "annihilation" or "annihilationism", but instead always use "conditional immortality".

So the key point of it all is that it helps prevent the other side from playing word games.

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1 year 8 months ago #9506 by FelixCulpa
That makes a little more sense, thank you!

The word games in this discussion are ridiculous.

I agree that CI is better than Annihilationism in that regard and it's certainly the one I opt for because of the implications drawn by ECT proponents of "Annihilationism," my only concern with it is that it's meanings too varied. It could mean soul-sleep but ECT, Soul Sleep + Annihilationism, or just Annihilationism. I wish there was a more commonly recognized term that was more specific... But that's a different discussion I guess lol.

Thanks again!

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